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Swirl

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Hey everyone,

I have a few questions about running TGM3 on the Taito Type-X in 2024. I would like to support my close friend in his TGM adventures, and I want to learn more about the whole setup. The pros, cons, and nitty gritty I should be aware of on the hardware and software side. I wouldn't be surprised if these are age-old questions (with age-old answers), but I figured it'd be best to ask so it's all in one place.

1.) If I purchased both the original encrypted hard drive data and security dongle, is it possible to clone both pieces for future proof sake (i.e. newer hard drive type like SSD, maybe different type of dongle) or that isn't possible given how the game was coded? It would honestly give me reassurance knowing there's a way to backup what I purchased, rather having the original pieces die off a year later and having just paperweight.

2.) Between the decrypted and encrypted versions of the game, is there any difference in how they function or they're exactly the same to the tee minus the need for a security dongle?

3.) If I'm purchasing a Taito Type-X for the first time, is there a specific/preferred hardware variant I should be looking for or it doesn't matter that much?

4.) With I/O recommendations, what's the best setup for low input latency? Is the MP07-IONA the way to go nowadays or Supergun + JAMMA <-> JVS adapter*?
* I have a the Capcom I/O thingy around, so my first thought was to plug everything up through that, but the IONA looks cool for something low profile/on the go.
 
This information applies to all Type X games!

1. You cannot clone the harddisk onto an SSD or the security dongle. There is protection on the HDD.

2. There should be no difference between the decrypted and encrypted version of the game.

3. @nam9 has an excellent guide here regarding the TTX hardware.

https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/taito-type-x-ttx-round-up-thread.15436/

On the original Type-X you must have a proper ATI Radeon 9600 SE 128 MB if not TGM3 will not work.

4. The Capcom IO is not recommended due to it's 1 frame lag. I have heard good things about the new IONA but not tested it myself.

So for the good news. I have written some software which is designed for those who own the original hardware and want to keep using it.
If you clone the original drive and write it to an SSD all you need to do is to replace one file and your game will work again. This software
is not ready for primetime yet but will be in a few weeks.
 
1. You cannot clone the harddisk onto an SSD or the security dongle. There is protection on the HDD.

2. There should be no difference between the decrypted and encrypted version of the game.
My current understanding is - If you own the original drive and dongle, you're pretty much playing until either one of them breaks down*. At some point you'd have to move onto using the decrypted version if you'd want to keep playing on the intended Taito build; I'd imagine that's the typical route?

* I never understood why the price of entry for the original setup is on the higher end with this scenario being a possibility, yeesh :x

4. The Capcom IO is not recommended due to it's 1 frame lag. I have heard good things about the new IONA but not tested it myself.
I genuinely didn't know this, but this gives me the incentive to check out the IONA as an alternative.

So for the good news. I have written some software which is designed for those who own the original hardware and want to keep using it.
If you clone the original drive and write it to an SSD all you need to do is to replace one file and your game will work again. This software

Woah alright, well this sorta jumps back to point 1 where it'd be possible to at least clone the original drive (with its contents), but removing the security dongle from the equation (assuming that's what replacing the one file is intended). If anything is gives me reassurance that something can be saved.
 
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@rtw small note on the IONA JVS adapter…
I failed to get this working with the TTX1/2 JVS card for an X2 clone build… Has it been confirmed working with a stock X1?

Extremely neat solution if it has…
 
@nam9 I have not tested it with the MP07-IONA-US but this version use a real rs485 transceiver circuit so it should work :)
 
Another question I have out of curiosity - Since the Taito Type-X is able to support 15khz through its VGA port, would it be possible to hook it up to a Sony PVM using a VGA2SCART or would the image quality and/or input lag be kind of horrendous?
 
Another question I have out of curiosity - Since the Taito Type-X is able to support 15khz through its VGA port, would it be possible to hook it up to a Sony PVM using a VGA2SCART or would the image quality and/or input lag be kind of horrendous?
It will be good, no input lag whatsoever. Just interlaced video.
 
It will be good, no input lag whatsoever. Just interlaced video.
Would it be okay for me to see an example of that setup on your end?

If the VGA2SCART in this case serves as a good mediator, I guess I'll pick one up.
 
Would it be okay for me to see an example of that setup on your end?

If the VGA2SCART in this case serves as a good mediator, I guess I'll pick one up.
Edit: Sorry, it could be that you need the vga2scart, my bad. Probably the sync going out of the type x require it i cannot assure it. I cannot try it right now im sorry, i will be able in some days.
 
Edit: Sorry, it could be that you need the vga2scart, my bad. Probably the sync going out of the type x require it i cannot assure it. I cannot try it right now im sorry, i will be able in some days.
It’s not a problem, whenever you have the time of course. :)

This is just mainly for me to understand and for others to see down the line. I don’t think I’ve seen that kind of setup with a Sony PVM (or something similar) yet.

My friend only has like monitors that can do Display Port, but he owns a PVM for anything arcade/retro game related.
 
Project GitHub: https://github.com/toyoshim/iona-us
EN documentation: https://toyoshim.github.io/iona-us/en

I believe djsheep has a sales thread for them (not sure if he sells them outside of AU), but I believe the project is open source w/o a commercial license, so you can just buy the clones on Aliexpress. You can also buy "better" ones from "official" distributors/vendors like KVCLab or Kadenken in Japan (use a proxy).
 
small note on the IONA JVS…
I failed to get this working with the TTX1/2 JVS card for an X2 clone build… Has it been confirmed working with a stock X1?

Extremely neat solution if it has…
@nam9

I picked up a couple IONAs from Tops JP (and I’m under the impression it’s the latest firmware instead of the 2.16 as listed) since the overall price and shipping was pretty good at this time.

The whole setup works out the box with a stock Type-X (Model B). All I did was plugged the USB B - USB A cable from the IONA to the JVS card on the unit. The lights flickered 3 times (continuously) on the IONA once I turned on the Type-X during its initialization. Once the game actually booted the light stayed solid blue and everything worked without any issues.

I used an Xbox One controller to play for a few hours and it was a pretty cool experience; very impressed that this device exists in 2024. I have to see if my Hori stick works later this week since that’s my usual input but no complaints so far.
 
Another update:
My Hori Real Arcade Pro.N works perfectly on the MP07-IONA with firmware version 2.22 and was able to play TGM3 without any issues thankfully. I'll be able to try out other fight sticks once my friends come by.

In my opinion, I felt the IONA website instructions was very fragmented to follow along with initializing the device. Below I've written out like a step by step for new owners of the latest [V3] IONA model, this was all done on Windows 10:

1.) I bought a USB 3.0 A - USB 3.0 A cable from Amazon.
2a.) I held down the Service Button* on the IONA, then plugged the USB A into IONA's Player 1 then into my computer's USB 2.0 port.
* The site only mentions this procedure is for V1/V2, but I wasn't sure if this was applicable to the latest model. In reality this is applicable to V3 (and up I guess) since this combo forces the IONA to go into a boot loader/PC mode, otherwise your device will keep blinking continuously and nothing will happen.
2b.) The IONA was detected as an "Unknown Device" on Device Manager.
2c.) I right clicked the "Unknown Device" > Events and looked in the Information panel for "DEVICE HID \VID_4348&PID_55E0\..." which determined this is the MP07-IONA.
3.) I went back to the "Driver" tab and clicked "Update Driver".
4.) New window popped up asking "How do you want to search for drivers?" > "Browse my computer for drivers" > "Let me pick from a list of available drivers on my computer".
5.) I scrolled all the way down to "Universal Serial Bus devices" > "WinUSB Devices" > "Model: WinUSB Device" as the driver to be installed.
6.) If all goes well**, then Device Manager should have installed the driver and the IONA will be detectable under the Universal Serial Bus devices category.
7.) Open up the IONA firmware website via. Google Chrome, scroll down, hit "Flash" then selected my device (should only be one in the Chrome drop down menu) then flashed the latest firmware.
8.) Head over to the "Settings" part of the site and hit "Find device", select your IONA and then scroll down to tick the boxes to the button layout you want for both Player 1 and Player 2. I personally left the other options as default since I just want to use a fight stick. Scroll back up and hit "Decide" > "Save to IONA" and all of the changes should be flashed onto the device.
** If Device Manager was unable to install the driver [I think an Error 10 came up saying it cannot initialize the device and it was unsuccessful to boot], uninstall the driver from the "Unknown Device" and redo all of the steps again in hopes it works. If this doesn't work, your best bet is to uninstall the driver then initialize the IONA on a completely different computer and follow the steps again. My main computer refused to detect and install the driver, so I did the steps again on a second computer and everything initialized immediately without any issues. From there I was able to install the latest firmware, and change my layout to the usual button layout of 1-6 (3 top, 3 bottom), start, coin, etc. since by default it was set to all weird.

Hopefully this'll be of help for anyone down the line if they decide to pick up an IONA and run it with a stock TTX.
 
Last (?) update but at Stock TTX -> Sony PVM:

I picked up a BKM-129X clone card SCART/VGA from Crown Arcade Shop. The card has two switches to toggle between SCART/VGA input and CSYNC/HVSYNC.

I plugged it into my 14L2, pushed in the switches to toggle both VGA and HVSYNC mode and went into the menu to see if the BKM-129X's serial number appeared within the "OPTION" tab. Once I saw the serial number and that the card was active, I tapped "Option A" and "EXT SYNC" on the front panel then went into the menu and "USER CONFIG" changing "COMP" to "RGB".

I plugged up the TTX, IONA and whatever else was necessary then everything booted up very nicely* without any weird sync/rolling screen issues.

* Initially I had a black screen with nothing but forgot I had to plug in my PS/2 keyboard and hit F1 to bypass the whole battery low/dead prompt whoops.

If you have a PVM without the expansion slots, I'm sure the whole VGA2SCART adapter method would work. Thankfully with the BKM clone card, it's practically plug and play which is neato. :)
 
This information applies to all Type X games!

1. You cannot clone the harddisk onto an SSD or the security dongle. There is protection on the HDD.

So for the good news. I have written some software which is designed for those who own the original hardware and want to keep using it.
If you clone the original drive and write it to an SSD all you need to do is to replace one file and your game will work again. This software
is not ready for primetime yet but will be in a few weeks.
@rtw I was meaning to ask - In regards to cloning hard drives, could I use something like Macrium Reflect to go about the process? The last time I ever cloned a drive with that software, it was like an exact 1:1 copy that worked out the gates. Unless there's a different cloning program you'd recommend nowadays for TTX stuff?

I think now I'm ready to archive the original drive I purchased after playing a bunch, and prepping for the software you have in development.
 
When cloning drives I use this tool:

https://hddguru.com/software/HDD-Raw-Copy-Tool/

It is free, can run in portable mode, and is fast. If you save the image as a .imgc file, the image will be compressed as well saving a lot of space.
Thank you, yeah I was also concerned about space. Reflect literally does the 1:1 with no compression option iirc. My main computer can only hold so much at the moment 😅

Will give this a try later.
 
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