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Read PAL registered (DuPAL dumper)

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danny510

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Hello, please, does anyone know where I can buy this pcb called “DuPAL-Pal dumper” ?,
what do i need besides the dupal pcb?, this is for brute force to read registered PAL.
I understand that the handling is very complicated, someone has used it and knows how it works (easy to understand tutorial)?, thanks, greetings.
https://github.com/DuPAL-PAL-DUmper/DuPAL_Board
 
I think you need to build it yourself judging by the project README. You can upload the zipped up gerbers to a PCB manufacturer such as jlcpcb or oshpark, etc. and you'll get 3-5 copies of it as a minimum order, then buy the components listed in the BOM and solder it up.

It has a serial port so you hook it up to a PC with a null modem cable and run some terminal software, give it some DC power and you should hopefully get output or an interface on the terminal software. I'd power it on without a PAL inserted and see what you get, but I'm guessing you drop a PAL into one of the two ZIF sockets and magic happens.

Looks like a fun little project.
 
I wonder why someone would embark on such a project when the compatibility isn't better than the simple method of reading 20 pin PALs as 256kB ROMs.
 
bodgit said:
I think you need to build it yourself judging by the project README. You can upload the zipped up gerbers to a PCB manufacturer such as jlcpcb or oshpark, etc. and you'll get 3-5 copies of it as a minimum order, then buy the components listed in the BOM and solder it up.

It has a serial port so you hook it up to a PC with a null modem cable and run some terminal software, give it some DC power and you should hopefully get output or an interface on the terminal software. I'd power it on without a PAL inserted and see what you get, but I'm guessing you drop a PAL into one of the two ZIF sockets and magic happens.

Looks like a fun little project.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the reply !, a great help :)
 
nobody said:
I wonder why someone would embark on such a project when the compatibility isn't better than the simple method of reading 20 pin PALs as 256kB ROMs.
Click to expand...
This method does not work for PAL registered, I already use the method you say.
 
danny510 said:
This method does not work for PAL registered, I already use the method you say.
Click to expand...
Neither does that duPAL project.

[EDIT]
It does list some registered devices as supported but can only reverse them if used in a purely combinatorial way. That's probably what misled you.
 
nobody said:
Neither does that duPAL project.

[EDIT]
It does list some registered devices as supported but can only reverse them if used in a purely combinatorial way. That's probably what misled you.
Click to expand...
Where have you read this? Can you pass me the link please?, thanks.
Do you mean that once the pal is decrypted, reading it as eprom, I can read it?
 
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@danny510 I have simply read the documentation. It might help you reverse a registered PAL but you will have work to do on your side.
The point is if you expect to be able to "read" a registered PAL and get a ready to burn file then that's not what you'll get.

That said I'm actually curious to see what results you get, so I'm supporting your approach, please tell us how it went.
I'm almost tempted to build one myself.

One last thing, out of curiosity, what PALs are you trying to dump?
 
nobody said:
@danny510 I have simply read the documentation. It might help you reverse a registered PAL but you will have work to do on your side.
The point is if you expect to be able to "read" a registered PAL and get a ready to burn file then that's not what you'll get.

That said I'm actually curious to see what results you get, so I'm supporting your approach, please tell us how it went.
I'm almost tempted to build one myself.

One last thing, out of curiosity, what PALs are you trying to dump?
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the detail, you are very kind, I am a newbie in this but I want to learn I have a Final Fight cps1 Capcom, try to read two PAL, one read it to me well with a PAL adapter to 27C020 and the PA of Charles MacDonald (I can see hexadecimal a lot of combinations and ASCII with results), but another PAL does not read it well, there are many FFs in Hexadecimal and empty ASCII, sometimes it reads something but almost all FF,they give me different results and different checksun, but it's almost always a lot of FF which I think is empty, and the PAL work in my cps1, I think it is registered, I have a pcb that I think is not dumped in mame and it may be that I find PAL registered, that's my case, I have already tried recording PALs to GALs, I know how it is done, and how they work fine, using Wincupl and PA analyzer, greetings.
 
You're welcome. I believe all PALs from Final Fight have been dumped and none was registered.
 
I used to have my secret source for registered PALs but that person is now gone.
DuPAL seems to be the only alternative now and probably not as efficient.
I'm about to move several thousands kilometers west in a few months, after that, once properly settled, I'll resume my arcade shenaningans.
 
nobody said:
I used to have my secret source for registered PALs but that person is now gone.
DuPAL seems to be the only alternative now and probably not as efficient.
I'm about to move several thousands kilometers west in a few months, after that, once properly settled, I'll resume my arcade shenaningans.
Click to expand...
It seems that it is the only DuPAL alternative, but it is difficult to handle, you have to do everything manually, it is not automated.
 
i never understood why all these dumpers create a huge file,
when they could reduce time and space by asking if you know which pins are inputs and which are outputs.
because we often either have schematics or can trace the pins to get the info.
 
stj said:
i never understood why all these dumpers create a huge file,
when they could reduce time and space by asking if you know which pins are inputs and which are outputs.
because we often either have schematics or can trace the pins to get the info.
Click to expand...
That's how @Apocalypse's registered PALs cracker works, the more you know about the chip, the easier it is to get it reversed.
Unfortunately that tool was never made available to the mass and stayed in a prototype phase with no documentation (from its author).
I guess we should focus on the bright side of things and be happy he released the dumps for dozens of Sega PALs (hosted @jammarcade).
 
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nobody said:
That's how @Apocalypse's registered PALs cracker works, the more you know about the chip, the easier it is to get it reversed.
Unfortunately that tool was never made avalaible to the mass and stayed in a prototype phase with no documentation (from its author).
I guess we should focus on the bright side of things and be happy he released the dumps for dozens of Sega PALs (hosted @jammarcade).
Click to expand...
I read that they were not interested in finishing the projects, it will be because there are already many games dumped?
 
plenty of things that arent games use pal's though.
and if we are reducing the overhead and ram by pre-defining pin status then it could probably be expanded to 28 or 32pin devices.
 
I usually send registered pals to Porchy on Jammacade. He's amazing. I did ask him about the process but it's beyond my paygrade. I don't think its just a matter of using hardware to do the work. There's some technical stuff you need to do afterwards as well.
 
Monstermug said:
I usually send registered pals to Porchy on Jammacade. He's amazing. I did ask him about the process but it's beyond my paygrade. I don't think its just a matter of using hardware to do the work. There's some technical stuff you need to do afterwards as well.
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Hi Monstermug !, the Strider work awesome !.
But… is it so expensive? Did he explain something about the process? Greetings :)
 
danny510 said:
Hi Monstermug !, the Strider work awesome !.
But… is it so expensive? Did he explain something about the process? Greetings :)
Click to expand...
Glad u like it. Yes a little but im not good with programming side and it went straight out the other ear. It looked like something from Matrix.
 
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