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MiSTer JAMMA options?

You beat me to it @ShootTheCore
It's highly modifiable, and everything works as expected as long as you map it properly.
For what it's worth, it's been pretty much plug-and-play with little issues across 3 cabinets I've tested.
Blast City, NAC, and a Neogeo MVS.
 
Any chance this (or any other project) is going to offer 4-player support with players 3/4 on the CPS2 connector?
 
twistedsymphony said:
Any chance this (or any other project) is going to offer 4-player support with players 3/4 on the CPS2 connector?
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3P4P support won’t be a standard feature for the MiSTercade - there’s not enough lines in the encoder for it. There are plans to offer a separate USB adapter for 3P4P support later on.
 
Another option that I think should be mentioned is aje_fr's design. I think it's impressive that he incorporated the SDRAM module onto his board.

https://twitter.com/aje_fr/status/1371955229948792841

Also, except for the JAMMA Expander, I think they all use the GPIO pins for the video output but from what I've read, the quality of the video coming out of the HDMI port is better.

110.jpg
 
I don't know. :whistling:

I'm not in the market for one, but I've seen people put themselves on his waiting list in his thread on neo-arcadia who aren't from France and it seems that he's acknowledging them.
 
samplehunters said:
Also, except for the JAMMA Expander, I think they all use the GPIO pins for the video output but from what I've read, the quality of the video coming out of the HDMI port is better.
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That's right, i think it has to do with the color bit depth. 24bit vs 18bit, but i think that not every core can take advantage of this.
 
The drawback to integrating the SDRAM into the JAMMA hat is that it can be obsoleted if the MiSTer SDRAM standard changes. That happened once already with the jump from 32 meg to 128 meg when the Neo Geo core came out, and it almost happened again a few months ago when Jotego ran into timing issues implementing the CPS2 core. Keeping the SDRAM separate is safer for future-proofing.

EDIT: An update to the SDRAM PCB design (V2.9) was released yesterday to help address ringing issues with the lines in the existing V2.5 design that caused some MiSTers to lock up with the demanding cores. Great example of why it’s better to leave the SDRAM separate from the JAMMA hat-the SDRAM implementation isn’t final.
 
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So it seems like 128MB SDRAM has gotten hard to acquire.

I have an order from Amazon and it now says 'Arriving May 12 - June 3'.

I placed another order on eBay which supposedly "in stock", the guy printed the label right away but it still isn't in transit.

I have built my MiSTer and at this point am just waiting on the JAMMA harness, but it's not going to do me much good without the memory.
 
In regards to the SDRAM, in his product description, aje_fr does make a point to mention that he tested his design for 8 hours with jotego's 96MHz software so I'm not sure if the concerns are warranted.

As far as expandability, does that mean that any JAMMA adapter solution that uses either of the 2 GPIO expansion headers will be out of luck if Sorgelig's prediction comes true? ?(

Post by Sorgelig » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:03 pm

Amiga, ao486, Linux apps - 24bits.
Analog audio from I/O board due to simple DAC exhibits loud boom sounds when core is loaded. Audio from converter has no such problem.

Key point is not because direct video provides better video and audio (which is true actually), but it's NOT worse than VGA output from I/O board. Later i expect VGA output from I/O will become optional and will be replaced by secondary SDRAM for more complex cores.
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samplehunters said:
In regards to the SDRAM, in his product description, aje_fr does make a point to mention that he tested his design for 8 hours with jotego's 96MHz software so I'm not sure if the concerns are warranted.

As far as expandability, does that mean that any JAMMA adapter solution that uses either of the 2 GPIO expansion headers will be out of luck if Sorgelig's prediction comes true? ?(
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I think the concerns about integrating the RAM into the hat are warranted because the timing lockup issues with the Version 2.5 SDRAM PCB design were occurring with some (but not all) DE-10 Nano baseboards. In other words, an SDRAM module that passed all the tests and worked fine on one DE-10 would glitch or lockup on another DE-10. As such, passing the memory test would only confirm that the memory works reliably with that specific DE-10. SDRAM modules based on the new Version 2.9 SDRAM PCB design should be more reliable (a Low Dropout Regulator was added to the design to stabilize voltage slumps) , so hopefully aje_fr updates his SDRAM integration design to mirror the new design. Even then, if a different memory expansion comes out eventually, you'd have to replace the entire hat to use it instead of just the SDRAM module.

FWIW, I have some experience in that area. When I first got into MiSTer in early 2019, CBMStuff.com was selling an IO board with 32 megs of integrated RAM and I bought one of them. Sorelig warned the seller repeatedly that integrating the RAM into the hat was a bad idea, and sure enough, the 128 meg upgrade came out a few months later with the Neo Geo core. I had to eat the cost of buying both a new SDRAM module and a new IO board that didn't have the SDRAM integrated because my integrated IO board was obsolete and I wanted to play Neo Geo. :D

As far as future expandability ... it's hard to predict. The quote from Sorelig you posted was over a year ago, and a more complex RAM design that uses multiple GPIO headers hasn't happened yet. If it does happen, it would only mean that you wouldn't be able to use the new complex cores that require complex RAM in your arcade cabinet with the current JAMMA hats. I'm sure an updated JAMMA solution would come along that worked around the new limitations at that time.

MiSTer isn't set in stone - every expansion module for it has the possibility of being deprecated in favor of a better one coming along later. Only the DE-10 Nano baseboard is certain not to change anytime soon.
 
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ShootTheCore said:
MiSTer isn't set in stone - every expansion module for it has the possibility of being deprecated in favor of a better one coming along later. Only the DE-10 Nano baseboard is certain not to change anytime soon.
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One of the reasons the Jamma expander only uses standard connectors, USB OTG, DC jack and HDMI 8)
 
ShootTheCore said:
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Thanks a lot for your reply, I do appreciate the insight! :D:thumbup:

After learning more about the SDRAM issues, jotego did a lot of research on the subject and at the end, he made some suggestions for the PCB design and it would seem that aje_fr did take some into consideration.

If you look at his design closely, you can see more bypass capacitors, series resistors and it looks like he's even doing trace length matching.

From what I gather, there have only been 4 people who have designed SDRAM solutions for the MiSTer (Sorgelig, JimDrew, antoniovillena and aje_fr) and it would seem that aje_fr's design is the best that I've seen so far.

I looked at Sorgelig's new v2.9 design and it seems that instead of using 3V3 from the GPIO, he's now using the 5V pin with a 3V3 regulator. My concern is that his design can still use a lot of improvement but I hope for us that it gets there eventually though I'm worried that it might be beyond his current skill level as he himself admits "(P.S.: Don't forget the current design made by hobbyist(me) based on practical tests) ".


SDRAM Reliability
Post by jotego » Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:44 am

For module builders:

-Decoupling for modules should be fixed to comply with the spec
-Independent lines for DQMH and DQML should be provided to avoid excessive load to A12 and A11
-Using serial resistors with FPGA outputs may help with ringing and guarantee reliable operation
-Trace coupling should be minimised
-Trace length should be matched
-Avoid using more than 2 SDRAM chips per module
-64MB modules made of a single chip are more reliable than 128MB modules
-Integrate the memory modules with the I/O board to share more supply pins
-Consider a dual SDRAM solution using both connectors but a single board, again to share more supply
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JAMMIX is intriguing to me, as I see myself using MiSTer in different environments and the ability to easily swap from one to the other would be ideal. Even across different arcade cabs this would be nice, as I have a Jammaizer connected to one cab essentially serving as my permanent retro console station. Would prefer not to move the Jammaizer to another cabinet just to play the MiSTer there. I also really like the ITX case form factor, so that's another plus. Been holding off on ordering a case for my MiSTer stack, so I hope this becomes available soon.
 
Is https://misteraddons.com the only place to pre-order MiSTEercade? I stumbled on cheap (new) DE-10 Nano and would like to give this a go on my Blast City / Tekken Cabinet, but the pre-order seems to be already full on that site.
 
I recently setup my mister using the JVS guide... I bought one of these for wiring up the JVSPAC2 to the Mister: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKW6RYD?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

and I'm using this VGA adapter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MS611LJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

for power I'm just using the original AC adapter since I currently have it setup in a Vewlix and it has AC ports.

This all seems to work well and helps simplify the wiring overall.

Does anyone know if there's a similar HDMI to DVI adapter with Audio out? Specifically something that doesn't need another power adapter?
 
twistedsymphony said:
Does anyone know if there's a similar HDMI to DVI adapter with Audio out? Specifically something that doesn't need another power adapter?
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Have you tried without powering it? On my HDMI-VGA dongle, 5V from the USB connector is routed exactly the same as 5V from HDMI - and the DE10-Nano delivers enough juice via HDMI to power it without issues.
 
I think you misunderstand. the HDMI to VGA dongle works perfectly and doesn't need an adapter
... but I want an HDMI to DVI... and I've yet to find one on the market that supports audio out and doesn't need a 5V adapter.
 
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