Better molded than printed - what sort of plastic parts are we missing in this hobby?

[rewrite]

So one of my other collecting hobbies is sending me down a wild rabbit hole of working with plastics in a few different capacities.

- Rotocasting (not rotomolding though, man I wish)

- Injection molding with roughly 6x6x3 inch molds for now. While I could personally use larger machine the costs scale up in price quickly.

- And after a workshop redesign in probably February I'll be looking at adding a vacuum forming table (size tbd, thinking 30x24).

Nothing massive, but plenty enough to get a *lot* done in small production runs.

Anyway, while 3D printing is an amazing feat of engineering and it's cool that basically anyone can have one in their house, it isn't ideal for everything. So what things do you fine folks here think we could benefit from having runs of? Even things that we're currently 3D printing but would have a better final product if they were molded.

I know it will only serve about 4 people, but I am absolutely going to tackle the black portion of the E29 speaker pod once I've got a little experience vacuum forming, but that's farther off than other methods.

 

[Ziggy Cheetos Dust]

Monitor surrounds for Candy cabs that are for flat LCDs. Arcooda.com are developing a 4:3 27” LCD screen. A big ask I know. It would really require an expensive setup. Bezels that suit even different curvature CRTs would be a wishlist item for many people I’d say.

 

[Mageta the Lion]

Probably not doable in the mentioned setup but im most likely not the only one with a broken CPS2 Shell at home

 

[rewrite]

Probably not doable in the mentioned setup but im most likely not the only one with a broken CPS2 Shell at home

Cannot imagine what the end cost would have to be to justify these... OTOH, I am potentially falling into a really good deal on a local used commercial upright injection molding machine. I am not fully sure how much volume a CPS2 shell is, but the machine is good for injecting almost 1kg in volume (compared to the 81g that my initially planned purchase can handle).

Mostly trying to figure out if we have the amperage here to support it. Waiting on the company to get back to me with some details. If this works out, we'll get into some REALLY dumb ideas.

Monitor surrounds for Candy cabs that are for flat LCDs. Arcooda.com are developing a 4:3 27” LCD screen. A big ask I know. It would really require an expensive setup. Bezels that suit even different curvature CRTs would be a wishlist item for many people I’d say.

Really depends what you're looking for. If it's like E29 or Aero Tables or Aero City where the monitor is recessed behind glass and there's a thin plastic surround, those are 1000% doable, no problem. Something like the harder plastic in the Blast or E2 would be beyond any setup any reasonably hobbyist would ever have.

Surprising to have basically no ideas out of AP. KLOV was littered with ideas of things they'd like replaced, ha. I guess those cabs are a LOT older though.

 

[twistedsymphony]

So what things do you fine folks here think we could benefit from having runs of?

having gone down the injection molding rabbit hole myself before I think specifically it need to be high production volume to be worth it.

professional injection molding companies are usually looking at around 5,000 units on a mold, granted that many units can get the per-unit cost down to pennies. But even still I think you'd want to target in the 500-1000 unit range to make it worth while.

With that said I'll list off the parts that I've personally considered as maybe worth the value

1. Sega Net City bolt cover - those stupid plastic covers that go over the bolt holes on the outer monitor surround. I've made a 3D printable version (though I'd recommend scanning an original if you go the mold route. And the thing here is that it's a small part, an injection molded one will hold up way better than a 3D printed one and it will look much better than a 3D printed one. Not to mention every customer will want 4 of them and you'll likely sell them to damn near every Net City owner because that's the kind of part that you'll want spares of because they WILL break eventually.

2. DDR sensor L-Bracket Spacers - on the original cab they have little steel spacers and then washers the problem is this is a moving part and the steel spacers and washers and L-bracket all wear into each other and eventually all of it needs to be replaced because there are deeply worn grooves. Someone had the idea to 3D print a version that merged all of the washers together into a single plate with the spacers integrated, this helps keep the L-bracket properly aligned and makes the 3D printed part into a sacrificial part without wearing grooves into the L-bracket. The original design was being gate-kept so I designed my own from scratch and offered it for free https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1291277
In any case the DDR community seems to love these and you need a whopping 32 of them to outfit a whole cabinet, plus them being a wear part means you'll get your quantities up pretty quick.

3. IGS PGM Cart housings - there's some nice 3D printing work but you really need injection molding to get the nice clear red color of the originals. Lots of people wanting these for the fluffy PCB conversions, or even just to replace cracked or damaged originals. I know I'd personally buy 6 or 8 sets of these if they were available for a reasonable price. I'm sure others would too. you could even offer them in a few different colors pretty easily.

4. SNK MVS Cart housings - Pretty much the same reasons as above, SNK has some Chinese competition but the market for MVS stuff is big enough it might be worth it. I'd definitely prioritize IGS PGM over MVS though just because MVS stuff IS actually somewhat available.

5. LS30 Rotary Stick Tops - The yellow knobs on the top of the SNK rotary sticks... these things are always gouged to shit because people don't know how to properly disassemble them and attack it with a screwdriver, I think anyone who owns these sticks would buy a set because they're either missing, gouged, or even if you're lucky enough to have a nice set you'd probably want spares.

One challenging aspect here is there is an embedded nut on the main housing. if you can identify an appropriate brass nut-sert you could make a small press tool and jig with a soldering iron to properly align and insert the nut-serts. Probably a useful took to make for some other stuff as well.


There's lots more I'm sure but I do think that for injection molding you really need to start with an analysis of the market size to determine it's viability. I think for larger housings I could maybe see CPS2 or CPS1.5 housings being potentially viable, CPS2 has the numbers but you'd have to get the cost down to make it worth while. CPS1.5 has a much smaller market but a much higher cost tolerance since the boards are more prone to breakage and command a much higher value. (not to mention it could be adjusted to accommodate something like the Darksoft CPS1 multi).

I did also consider some of these parts for silicone molding. you can take a clean original make a silicone mold and then make replacements in Resin, you can get really nice results in a pressure chamber. Much better for lower-quantity stuff. There's a great video on this here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PTa3atA0oY

 

[XtraSmiley]

Everything above, times ten!

Let's add Neo Geo AES snap cases that don't cost $40. I know there are ones out there, but why $40? If they were say, $20, I'd buy 10 myself, but for some reason, $40 rubs me the wrong way.

While we're on that, why not snap cases for MVS, PGM, Atomiswave, and Cave PCBs? Snap cases look so much cooler than shock boxes and they would be way cooler for all the applications.

Make the exterior one size/type/mold, and provide different interior holders, that way you can sell a ton more shells to spread the costs.

Do this, and I'll buy 50 myself, maybe more.

 

[plasticfactory]

You're speaking my language here!

@twistedsymphony I've wanted to do those NNC tabs for a while, but never got around to asking permission to use your model. I have reproduction PGM shells currently in the CAM phase (parts and molds are designed), to anyone who is still interested in those. I figure the mold build will start sometime in January/February. The benefit of these projects with me is that they are production molds, used on industrial machinery -- without the burden of MOQs It just requires being (very) selective with which projects are taken on.

@rewrite This entire thing is very much of interest to me. See here -- this was my first arcade-related molding project. If you need any advice, or have any questions about mold design, processing, materials, etc., feel free to ask. The more people offering products/services like this the better

Personally, I think someone skilled in vacuum forming would be hugely beneficial to the hobby. I think I've been asked about reproducing parts that would be vacuum formed 4:1 against molded parts.

 

[rewrite]

having gone down the injection molding rabbit hole myself before I think specifically it need to be high production volume to be worth it.

Well here's the thing. I'd be paying out of pocket for injection molding stuff for another hobby *anyway*. So cost of machine isn't too worrisome here as it'll be sitting in my shop anyway. I also have effectively 0 overhead, unlike most businesses. No employees, no lease, don't even pay for electricity. I already have an OpenCNC machine built and could mill my own molds for things where the design doesn't require EDM. So while I'd definitely need to cover the cost of the square stock for the mold to start, everything else is just my time and consumables, really.

There are also some REALLY interesting things going on now with 3D printed molds for injection molding. Rigid 10k resin can supposedly take the pressure and heat to injection mold (though I'm sure not for 5000 units, but perhaps suited well for things that you only need 200 of). So an outer metal casing holding the 3D printed inner mold, and off you go. That's a $10,000 printer though. But would probably pay itself off in a reasonable timeframe. I'm not sure where the balance in cost comes out between $300/litre resin and milling metal molds is, but I'm sure I could run the numbers at some point.

Those DDR things as well as the NNC covers look like a perfect starting places, especially if I *don't* end up with the commercial machine. And I've actually seen what you're talking about for the rotary sticks when I was watching a bit on an open-source lathe and they were setting nuts into the plastic that way! It's very clever.

PGM carts had already run through my mind! But looks like @plasticfactory is already on top of it!

While we're on that, why not snap cases for MVS, PGM, Atomiswave, and Cave PCBs? Snap cases look so much cooler than shock boxes and they would be way cooler for all the applications.

I like where your brain's at. Let's get some gaudy red snaplocks on the market for PGM and AW!

Personally, I think someone skilled in vacuum forming would be hugely beneficial to the hobby. I think I've been asked about reproducing parts that would be vacuum formed 4:1 against molded parts.

That first project is great!!! And really, thank you so much for offering your insight and experience. I'm sure I'll have some questions! I got sent down this rabbithole for making Jumbo Machinder replacement parts, lol. I've got a really janky wooden rotocasting frame I've used a good bit for hollow parts, and plan on building a nicer steel one for a larger project soon here (looking at a 18x10x6 inch mold! ). But there are some things that just need to be injection molded or vacuum formed, which sent me down this crazy path.

Only so much hobby money, so we'll see if I can pick up that commercial injecting machine, and if not, I'll probably pick up the pace on finishing out the vacuum forming bed. I'm building it from scratch from a very nice set of plans, but it's easily going to be the priciest part of the whole thing. Managed to get a very nice 80 gallon tank (bordering on too large), but I'm struggling to not pay a fortune for a vacuum pump locally (Grainger wants $2100!!!!). Bunch of messages sent out on offerup/cl/marketplace for some Edwards 30 pumps. Hopefully someone will get back to me after the holidays are through.

Anyway, I'm really excited about new tools and diving into learning some new stuff. Electronics are still fun and interesting, but I am BURNT OUT.

 

[PASTBLASTER]

With the amount of LCD swaps we do here, getting some of the user designed LG Mounts for the various cabs injection molded would be incredible. 3D printed ones work well in a home environment, but as someone who brings cabs to shows, they really can't survive more than a trip or two without breaking.

Remote Board cases / mounts would also be another rad thing since a lot of the mounts snap off in Astro cabs.

MVS / PGM Shells.

Really cool if this can happen!

 

[rewrite]

Really cool if this can happen!

Injection molding will happen 100%, it's just *how big* that is being questioned at the moment!

I'm either 24x36 or 24x48 for the vacuum bed, just depends on the wiring as heaters take a *lot* of wattage. Hoping to have our electrician out early in January to confirm and I can finalize the size. The cost difference in building one or the other is only a couple hundred dollars, and I have the space for the big one, so hopefully that!

 

[XtraSmiley]

Aww man, for gaudy red I'd pay the $40!

 

[Aurich]

There are also some REALLY interesting things going on now with 3D printed molds for injection molding. Rigid 10k resin can supposedly take the pressure and heat to injection mold (though I'm sure not for 5000 units, but perhaps suited well for things that you only need 200 of). So an outer metal casing holding the 3D printed inner mold, and off you go. That's a $10,000 printer though. But would probably pay itself off in a reasonable timeframe. I'm not sure where the balance in cost comes out between $300/litre resin and milling metal molds is, but I'm sure I could run the numbers at some point.

I'm just curious what the $10,000 printer in question is here. We're outside my direct experience, but I thought the Rigid 10k was a Formlabs product?

You can get really reasonable deals on used Form 3s, (or a NIB one for $2k! https://www.ebay.com/itm/196902717854) but even a brand new Form 4 is half that.

Maybe I'm not taking something into account, but just wondering if I'm missing something or if the math isn't actually that bad. The resin definitely isn't cheap though.

 

[rewrite]

I'm just curious what the $10,000 printer in question is here. We're outside my direct experience, but I thought the Rigid 10k was a Formlabs product?

Form 4L is $9,999.00! Form4 is not big enough. I'd happily snag a Form 3L or 3BL because the increase in print speed the 4 has means nothing at all to me, but all of the used ones I'm finding are 12-13k, which makes no sense at all.

The resin is wildly expensive, but when you start comparing it to aluminum block pricing, you start to see where it has an advantage.

 

[bartre]

This stupid POS makes me so anxious on both of my exceleenas....
Granted, it's a wild endeavor to make a replacement.
One can dream

 

[Aurich]

Form 4L is $9,999.00! Form4 is not big enough. I'd happily snag a Form 3L or 3BL because the increase in print speed the 4 has means nothing at all to me, but all of the used ones I'm finding are 12-13k, which makes no sense at all.

The resin is wildly expensive, but when you start comparing it to aluminum block pricing, you start to see where it has an advantage.

Ahhhh, that's what I was missing, the L. That makes total sense.

I was just curious so checked eBay and here's one for $3500 that's (fairly) local.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/146292509283

 

[rewrite]

Granted, it's a wild endeavor to make a replacement.

Okay, hear me out. Because no one is ever going to get a run of these done with a mold, it's just way way too big/costly for a DIY endeavor, and I'm sure bonkers expensive to get a real company to retool to make a run of these. But it's small enough and lacks many details, I'd be surprised if you couldn't mill it, yeah?

Ahhhh, that's what I was missing, the L. That makes total sense.

I was just curious so checked eBay and here's one for $3500 that's (fairly) local.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/146292509283

Oh man, this absolutely wasn't here the other day, I swear. All the used eBay ones were more than a brand new 4L. Thank you, I may run this down. I'm not *super* comfortable buying a used 3D printer that *just* fell out of warranty as I'm not really sure what to look for on it. I'm really excited about this idea though. I could pick this and the DIY injection mold machine for about what I'd been considering paying for the industrial one. Which is unfortunately going to fall through, I think.

Because it turns out that Taiwanese industrial injection mold machine model numbers make NO sense. The 250 has a massive massive shot volume, but the 350 I was looking at is just 6.1 cu in. Which isn't *that* much better than the 5.1 cu in the little DIY one can do. Huge bummer. I'm sure it can knock out hundreds an hour and is *far* better quality, but not worth spending double over when the additional size is so small. Definitely will end up starting smaller then, and move up later when possible.

For now I have a lot of good smaller sized projects to start with. The great ideas @twistedsymphony provided, KLOV is real worked up about having not 3D printed Major Havoc controller housings, and those are 5.047 cu in, so they just BARELY fit in the cheaper setup. And then I can justify my own part toy plans, ha.

 

[Aurich]

Oh man, this absolutely wasn't here the other day, I swear. All the used eBay ones were more than a brand new 4L. Thank you, I may run this down. I'm not *super* comfortable buying a used 3D printer that *just* fell out of warranty as I'm not really sure what to look for on it. I'm really excited about this idea though. I could pick this and the DIY injection mold machine for about what I'd been considering paying for the industrial one. Which is unfortunately going to fall through, I think.

Yeah I really don't know how Formlabs is to work with on used machines, or how reliable they are in general. I'm always been leery of their lock-in ecosystem, but I just print in normal ass resin, nothing fancy. For an actual 'business' use I think they're super interesting. Buying into their resin system is just the cost of doing business.

I print on a GKTWO right now.

 

[MickyMac]

Monkeyball bananas would be cool and the NOA-1502-03 sega cab bezel for a flat CRT.

 

[jdigital7]

Hmm, maybe some custom arcade sticks/controllers? The old AES sticks seem to still be the best because the newer versions seem to use cheap parts. Not sure if there is money/profit to be made there or not. I'd be happy with a new cord door for my old Madcatz TE stick. Those things broke easily if you didn't perfectly wrap up the cord before trying to close it.

 

[plasticfactory]

That first project is great!!! And really, thank you so much for offering your insight and experience. I'm sure I'll have some questions! I got sent down this rabbithole for making Jumbo Machinder replacement parts, lol. I've got a really janky wooden rotocasting frame I've used a good bit for hollow parts, and plan on building a nicer steel one for a larger project soon here (looking at a 18x10x6 inch mold! ). But there are some things that just need to be injection molded or vacuum formed, which sent me down this crazy path.

Only so much hobby money, so we'll see if I can pick up that commercial injecting machine, and if not, I'll probably pick up the pace on finishing out the vacuum forming bed. I'm building it from scratch from a very nice set of plans, but it's easily going to be the priciest part of the whole thing. Managed to get a very nice 80 gallon tank (bordering on too large), but I'm struggling to not pay a fortune for a vacuum pump locally (Grainger wants $2100!!!!). Bunch of messages sent out on offerup/cl/marketplace for some Edwards 30 pumps. Hopefully someone will get back to me after the holidays are through.

Anyway, I'm really excited about new tools and diving into learning some new stuff. Electronics are still fun and interesting, but I am BURNT OUT.

Thanks! Just let me know. Regardless of what type or scale of machine, I strongly recommend having these books as references:

• How to Make Injection Molds - despite the basic sounding title, this book is an incredible, easy to digest reference for best plastic part and mold design practices
• Scientific Molding - great book for learning how to design a molding process for any individual mold. It's also good for learning the basics of materials.

These principles apply to basically anything injection molding related, whether it's an industrial machine or benchtop press.